When the Buddha declared “All life is suffering” he wasn’t being nihilistic or negative. He was telling it like it is. I realize he actually said “Life is dukkha” in a version of Sanskrit, and that word is difficult to translate into English. I believe its aspects include impermanence and conditioned responses as well as suffering.
But that is only my surface understanding. I believe one has to devote many years and many tens of thousands of hours of meditation (at least) to actually grasp what he meant. And hopefully transcend suffering. I certainly have not done this. So as far as my understanding of these concepts I am indeed a “surface dweller.” One could say that about most people.
That being said, we all suffer. Even if we are not plagued by disease, broken hearts, and financial ruin. The “ten thousand natural shocks” that occur over time—egos battered and fractured, paradigms lost, endless suffering propelled by our fundamental attachments. Defensiveness is indeed a conditioned response. And in the end, we all lose people close to us. Impermanence indeed.
How do we change our responses to “dukkha?” The New Age movement would have us believe that we can “team up” with a benevolent universe and “attract” or “co-create” outcomes that will make us “happy.” Most of these intentions seem to be aimed at success in business, romantic relationships, and other material gains. "Abundance." Attachments indeed. Though certainly many have higher aspirations and want to attract or co-create their own spiritual awareness. This is laudable.
What is the method, the work, the disciplined practice that it takes to attract or co-create with the universe? It seems to be simply acknowledgement: “I am one with the consciousness of the universe. I will be in its “flow” and all in my life will be rewarded with positive outcomes.” Perhaps I will engender an “ageless body” and “change my genes.”
Yet, I have posed certain questions on this site regarding victims of rapists, pedophiles, the Holocaust, famine and earthquakes. Did they attract or co-create their own negative experiences? Did they get on the wrong side of the universe and its benevolent flow? Should we blame the victims for not “getting” how to control their environments? That is so childish a concept that it beggars the imagination. A judgment and a guilt trip. That is the inevitable conclusion if “attraction” and “co-creation” explain the “laws” of the consciousness that created the universe. A paradigm of existence must explain the good and bad, yin and yang.
It seems to be an issue of control: “We are part of a larger consciousness and ultimately through belief decide our own fate on this earth.” I wish this was the case. For that matter, I wish rainwater was beer. Sadly, we cannot control much of our lives. Through positive interactions with people, positive thought and positive action we can we can affect a good deal of what happens to us. Meditation can make us more spiritually aware. These things just make us decent human beings.
Yet, shit happens. People can perpetuate evil upon us. Famine can kill people through malnutrition, or weaken their immune systems to the point that disease takes an easy hold. Natural disasters can destroy us. Why? Job wondered—and received an answer that was beyond his comprehension: “I am that I am.” Remove the aspect of a personal god, and it dovetails nicely with “All life is suffering.” We are Job.
Thanks for taking the time to write this out and challenge popular assuptions about the universe. It's refreshing.
Matt,
I really don't post things like this to rain on anyone's parade. I am seeking answers. To do so, we have to emulate Diogenes with his lantern, inquire and examine to find honest philosophies. It angers me to see so many people making so much money off the easy answers people want to hear. At first glance, the "writers" of The Secret have no possible bead on reality. Then I thought about it again. They indeed understand reality: Tell people that it's easy and you'll have a bestseller. And guffaw all the way to the savings and loan.
Great post Bob. I thanky you for sharing it. I am … I don't know, searching? I find the easy answers to easy at times. I'm gonna leave the big lifting for you big guy and I will continue to work on some self acceptance.
Keep up the great challenges!
Mary
But Bob, I think that Buddha was referring to grasping on to or becoming attached to form wasn't he and that thinking that there was a permanent self was an illusion. There is nothing permanent in the whole universe and everything is in a constant state of change.
if one thinks of a loved one as ( only ) having a form – then to loose that form or embodiment is to suffer and grieve .. but if one sees that the inherent nature has no form then the loss of any form – your own or that of another is not something to grieve but more rejoice.
Was Buddha correct.. logically we can only agree with nothing having any permanent nature but I have found no solace in that because it does not imply that anything remains after death. The Buddhist use the words mental continuum is that which is carried over and reincarnates… I have had no enlightening answers as to what this mental continuum actually is from any buddhist so far. One can only assume that he was referring to the playboy mansion as happily ever after – !!
I guess you just have to work hard enough to get the free pass to gain access..
… LOL or your local guru might get you in ?
Kay,
I realize I have a surface understanding of Buddhism just from reading texts and commentaries, as I haven't studied in a monastery and put the time in. I guess I was using my shallow notions as a lead-in to various explanations of some of the popular notions of how the "benevolent" universe operates and their apparently glossing over of the "bad things that happen to good people." I think we'd need someone of the ilk of Zenmonk to provide a deep understanding of these Buddhist concepts.
But we all do indeed suffer. The ego does. No doubt those with great spiritual awareness can weather the death of a close family member in a much different way than I. As far as mental continuim, who knows? That may survive death and reincarnate. But how would the personality and ego we inhabit in this incarnation ever know? It's not much different from being just plain dead in that regard.
Still waiting for that call from Hugh Hefner. I must say he has disappointed me. My ego and my libido are crushed. Why do bad things always happen to me?
Oh they say that it comes to those who don't want it – told to me by reliable Dzogchen source hehe
god sake there is nothing worse than a man who is looking for it haha
see… you are trying – zen and dzogchen both promotes no trying .. just sit there
Sure as hell I have a pass to the playboy mansion and don't know what to do with it.. shall i pass it on ?
Maybe I should add just sit there for a long time hehe
** eventually one of those bunnies will notice you and pull you through the door
A bunny pulling me through a door? She'd bury me. Then I can come back as a ghost and tell everyone what lies in the Great Perhaps. Actually, that's a great idea–I'll call Hef back and tell him we want to do an experiment with cosmic implications. Maybe that'll get me in the door. As I saw inscribed once on the bathroom wall in a dive bar: "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit." I hope no one's noticed that's my mantra.
Bob,
No one gets to their heaven without a fight. Being a Taoist you should know it's a balance between the control we have and not. All of the universe is in us and you can identify with whatever you want to identify with. Human suffering from one to another is from lack of awareness. Someone learned a destructive behavior through their experience and projected that onto someone else. Some dis-ease is caused by not taking care of ourselves, but other diseases are like a meteor falling on my head. For the latter, no one knows why they happen but we can control how we process most external influence. Whether it's a meteor falling on our head or disease, we are all going to die. But the opposite of death is birth, not life. As quantum mechanics proves, life is eternal. Some remember a past life, I do not, but I don't remember never being either. Space and time are illusions. As Einstein said to a colleague before his death, "people like us know that the distinction between the past, present and future is just a stubborn persistent illusion."
Hedonistic pursuits, now that will solve all of our problems lol!
Love,
Michael
yes we definitely are after the cosmic bunny job .. is Hefner a zen bloke then
bullshit always baffles brains – this is the right website for it
Michael,
I can still see you're a bit miffed; you haven't answered my questions regarding co-creation with universal consciousness and the terrible tragedies that happen to innocent victims. Or have you altered your theory of how the universe operates since yesterday? I guess some of the evidence got misplaced! But let's put that aside.
I don't think quantum mechanics proves there is a universal consiousness with sentience and purpose. Or that the mind survives the death of the brain. The observer phenomenon does not prove this. I doubt the majority of physicists believe in these things, because there isn't any real evidence.
As far as Einstein: I know he didn't believe in a personal God. I don't think he ever expressed that he believed in life after death and the survival of consiousness. You must know that quote isn't about these things.
As far as hedonistic pursuits, the above is a running joke. No need to make a judgement. I can see I damaged your paradigm–and your ego is attached to it. Hence the defensiveness. You should listen to Motorhead!
Bob I think that when you eventually go to the playboy mansion you should take michael with you or at least show him where it is
Well, I just got a computer (haven't had one in eight years) but what I've been able to discover so far is that you can download copiesof "Playboy lingerie" for like 7.99 which is like 3.00 dollars of the cover prices. So…I'm just sayin…you can now have a cyber posse.
What IS Said about Job-By Dr. William R Long……. Job is fully restored……
What the closing narrative tells us is that Job is fully restored, with a replacement set of children, double his goods and gifts from others. It is unique in biblical literature in stressing that Job divided the inheritance among his daughters (as well as his sons), and it lists the names of the three daughters (but not the sons) (42:14-15). An interesting inference that may be drawn from this is that Job, formerly the upholder of the traditions, now is questioning the tradition and acting accordingly. Once Job has had every prop of security removed from his life, why should he have any investment in the future of the tradition. This is speculative, of course, but the brevity of the conclusion invites such speculation.
In addition, Job lives to good old age, dying at 140 years, which is twice the biblical span of our days (Ps. 90:10). His double blessings included a doubled life span. From what is expressly said of Job's later days, we conclude that Job, though doubly restored, may now feel that the value of the tradition is relativized with respect to him.
Kay, even if you could convince my wife to let me go, my Catholic upbringing, karma and guilt would keep me from going lol!
Bob, have you read my post from your Voltaire Intent thread? One of the great things about knowing your true self and enlightenment is that whatever arrows or projections someone discharges, reveals a feeling one doesn't want to acknowledge in themselves.
I really do enjoy this dialogue with you guys and please don't take any of it personally. Life is too short! I know my intention for participating on this site is to share, grow, heal and have fun, and hope that is also your reason for being here.
Love,
Michael
Bob Have you really read the last narrative on Job?
He is fully restored….He is not living an eternal life of overcoming, suffering and all that other jazz people don't want to get over……Keep searching you will figure it out, just like Job did…….
Michael…. You don't want to meet the Brides of Christ rofl – now that's a shame
Micheal I can see you understood the last narrative in the book of job….He finally figured out that life doesn't have to about a perpetual act of overcoming….Job in the last narrative is fully restored-
Most people never really finish reading the book of Job….That get stuck in the chapters of battle, and then stay there…..
My suggestion to Bob, is finish reading the Book of Job…..and if you can't understand that he was restored, then read the book again…..
Love and Peace restored,
Gyanama
I have met them in me and they're still there! It's up to me if I want to acknowledge them and give them power…
I. C. …..
Gyanama,
Thank you for continuously sharing the light from your eternal essential Self. Know that it is always appreciated. I've learned so much from your posts.
Love,
Michael
well no doubt the bunnies will get you anyway – somehow
!
Hi Bob,
you write, "Yet, I have posed certain questions on this site regarding victims of rapists, pedophiles, the Holocaust, famine and earthquakes. Did they attract or co-create their own negative experiences? Did they get on the wrong side of the universe and its benevolent flow? Should we blame the victims for not
To Micheal,
in terms of projection, I will say this, not everyone we stand in front of is reflecting back the light in which you reflect….and by no means is the mirror you stand in front of always going to be your perfect reflections…
Most people on this site don't really understand what True Projection is……They get caught in the passing clouds and mistake the clouds for the sun….
The One Divine Mind stands in front of a mirror being the pure light that it is, but if the mirror you stand in front of(duality consciousness) has a dark mist over it, it then can not reflect the light back as brightly as the light already is…………………..The Light that you give….
For those who have ears to hear…..and who acquaint themselves with a fully restored Job…
Love and Peace,
Gyanama
dukkha
http://buddhism.about.com/od/thefournobletruths/a…
bunnies love penguins…. and road runners ……meepmeep
The clouds are not in the sun, never were never will be….
The absolute principle of 2+2 =4 is not the equation, yet without which the equation would not appear…4 is in harmony with it's Principle in this human equation….Put a 5 there, and the absolute principle will still be as perfect as it is…..But the 5 is the unreal answer to that equation….4 is the harmonious manifesto of the perfect principle understood…
.Your perfect Micheal…..and the manifesto of the divine principle…..
4 you,
Gyanama
Hi Gyanama,
Whether the forecast is clouds or a clear day, neither would exist without the sun.
Love,
Michael
Gyanama,
Yes, Job was restored. But his ten children were killed. What of his children?
Bob
The restored Job, Knows the answer to that question…
LOL ever decreasing circles – the bible is true – why .. because god said so !
Job restored sounds like a blue print for a good con trick.. pray on peoples pity and compassion and you get more than you lost !! Oh I am an evil little roadrunner .. meep meep !
on a very abstract and sci fi note – it seems possible that we are watching a personfied – animated play out of a cause and effect process. a sort of doppleganger charade .. persish the thought that our true self would set foot in the experiment to get killed off – no send the clone !!
They say ( Buddhism ) that it is all an illusion – so the computer mind works out all possible combinations of cause and effect and one is trapped and intrigued in a virtual world of ' what ifs ' … the doppleganger dies and another one is born to continue the ' game' of learning…
But this is merely a meander into a what if scenario – pay no attention
Truly if I were in charge of me and I needed to know things I would never never put myself into such danger and dire conditions would I !!
I copyright that idea btw… for when Hollywood is at a loss for another crappy story they can have this one pretty cheap.
I am sorry you don't understand God, Kay………..Happy trails….
*Bob*..*Kay*…pure delight! ((( Thank you for sharing your wisdom, wit and insightful takes on life, love, everything in between and outside the edges of consciousness…! ))) … love from beachgirl
I think "The Great Debate" between Deepak Chopra and Dr. Shermer fueled my rant. I really don't think religion vs. science is a good debate–somewhat like entangling church and state. How can one prove the unprovable? Faith vs. reason? One day, perhaps. But not yet. Not enough evidence outside of a few rogue scientists, some anomolies and anecdotal evidence.
That being said, I've never thought of "attraction" and "co-creation" as more than pop spirituality of the most insipid kind. A cottage industry they are, however. I'm just pissed I didn't think of them first. I'd like to have scads of money and see if I get "attached." A long trial; twenty or thirty years.
whole heartedly agree with you Bob.. i was always told I should write a book about my ' views ' and philosophies but I just cannot bring myself to write one and have the audacity to sell it when it may be false knowledge I am peddling. Anyway my views continually change so what I wrote last year may not be true this year – I am no different to the rest of the universe – I am continually changing.
@Gyanama – thank you for the compliment
* Kay wraps her clone on the knuckles and tells it to behave itself and to believe in god so it fits into the mainstream of ignorance.
@ beachgirl – I am sure that your wit is also great fun
*Bob*…you may find this interesting & confirming…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-FaXD_igv4&featur…
aloha
beachgirl
I had a look at that Beachgirl .. I think that Chopra is right and wrong and so too is Dawkins.. if they pool their ideas then maybe they get the jackpot.
then there is this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHoDysf0mH0&featur…
Chopra says that there is only One of us – i have come to the same conclusion
What happens when all matter collapses – there is space left Chopra says
Yes I wrote the same thing last night to a buddhist but space is surely arising dependent on matter and space contracts when matter collapses.. space is not a thing – it is a functional measurement.. I don't agree with this space existing without matter.
I don't want to prove one side being correct and the other incorrect – they must both be equally valid – we must find that unified field theory that confirms both or all views.
I want to mention ( thanks to Ed ) one Nassim Haramein as being of interest in this regard
*Kay*me*too…i agree about only `the one of us` and agree how can space exist without matter. Fundamentally and much appreciated the interview link and also have no intent to prove one side being correct and the other incorrect. balance and harmony and love and peace and light are important to me. aloha, Kay….beachgirl
Beachgirl,
Checked out that video. I for one know little about physics. I guess you could say that about almost everybody. I remember reading Chopra's Quantum Healing back during my fun and games. It helped inspire me to go deeper into the mind/body connection and take on grueling hour-long sessions of standing post meditation every day. Years later I read that the 'physics" Chopra cited in the book to back up his paradigm was completely wrong! If I had known anything about the subject I would've thrown the book into the trash. Go figure.
The point is that it's easy to use a strange and yet unfully explored phenomenom–such as the observer phenomenom–and use it as proof of one's metaphysical beliefs. Most people whom one preaches to won't have any idea if you're wrong or right, or scientifically accurate. Most aren't going to embark on an in-depth study of physics to see if you're right. And you know what' s odd? I read "The Secret" and immediately thought I'd understand quantum theory and be able to speak intelligently with Stephen Hawking. I guess I'd better invest in the DVD and make sure I've got it right.
I noticed in the video Chopra used the word "metaphor" to describe his use of physics. He's a big one for those. From what I've seen of his responses to Dr. Shermer it's one of his lines of retreat when confronted by scientific evidence: Fuzzy New Age metaphors that sound profound until actually examined. Then they don't seem to mean anything, and have nothing to do with science. It comes from a certain type of arrogance one finds from those who profess great spiritual awareness on this site, too: When you attempt to pin them down with cold hard facts they hide behind flowery metaphors–which no one seems to understand. Press them further and their next avenue of retreat is "Look deeper. Perhaps one day you'll understand." You know, perhaps you'll one day be lucky to have their same level of cosmic awareness. It's both arrogant and cowardly; laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.
Great skeptic that I appear to be I believe we are more than flesh and blood. Paranormal experiences that I can't explain have put a serious dent in my coat of mail. I believe things such as this warrant furher investigation. But one can't use anecdotal evidence as scientific proof. It works fine if you're going to write books and charge astronomical speaking fees. But that's only proof of greed. By the way, Chopra looked much older in that video than on the photo on his posts or on his book jackets. Odd, isn't it? Perhaps that "ageless body" thing isn't working out. Too late, millions have already bought the book. Maybe he'll give them their money back!
Love on ya,
Bob
so… we come back to one mind with a real bad dose of multiple personality disorder and a bad case of omniscience and omnipotence.. I would hate to limit it by stupidly trying to name it or even begin to think I know its totality.. but all the time I can see what has manifested in a linear cognative manner suited to our individual talents on both the personal and species level. I am busy discussing this with Ed elsewhere so everything i say here has a bit of Ed's prompting and ' spice ' too
– the ' crouch' is missing from this thread !
Kay,
It certainly is hubris to think one has all the answers, either in the scientific or spiritual realm. I suppose it's easier to understand if one does so in the scientific arena, as one sometimes has facts to support one's theories. The spiritual realm? It's like quicksilver–there's something there but one cannot quite grasp it. Close your fist and it leaks to the floor and scatters.
I think we could've used Ed's hoary wisdom in this thread. Love those penetrating one-liners. I see people call him "granpa." Well, Ed is very old and wise and we must respect our elders. You know, help him across the street. I don't dare ask him his birthdate as I suspect we were born the same year! Fortunately no one calls me grandpa yet. But the way my sons are "planting their flags" I think it's inevitable.
The little white dog on the floor knows the truth
Kay,
I think you should definitely write a book. You have an atmospheric knowledge of the spiritual traditions of scads of cultures both Eastern and Western. And you certainly know how to tie them together. One area that fascinates me is the commonality of the two. In the East meditative traditions flourished, while in the West they were squashed out by the Church whom wanted people to get to God its way.
When my ex-wife dallied with Wicca, the witchcraft beliefs, in the declining years of our marriage I took a look at one of their rituals "Drawing Down the Moon." I told the leader of her "coven" that she should stop the ritual arm motions at the point where they framed her forehead and meditate on the moon for a half an hour. The moon in Taoist parlance is a metaphor for the pineal gland. A stimulated pineal gland is suppose to lead to greater psychic awareness. And enhanced "personal power." Rituals are meant to focus intent, after all. I think in ancient times these priestesses spent a lot of time in meditation. But that knowledge has been lost in the West.
Well, the woman didn't take my advice. In fact, she was mortally offended that I–a man–had the hubris to tell her something about her own rituals (which she learned from some book). Unfortunately she was my best friend's wife and my friend and I never get together anymore and haven't spoken in years.
I seem to have that affect on some people. However, I think a book tying things together would be extremely interesting and you certainly have the guns to do it.
Bob