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Sages & Scientists Symposium
About Deepak Chopra
Time Magazine heralded Deepak Chopra as one of the 100 heroes and icons of the century, and credited him as "the poet-prophet of alternative medicine." Entertainment Weekly described Deepak Chopra as "Hollywood's man of the moment, one of publishing's best-selling and most prolific self-help authors." He is the author of more than 50 books and more than 100 audio, video and CD-Rom titles. He has been published on every continent and in dozens of languages. Fifteen of his books have landed on the New York Times Best-seller list. Toastmaster International recognized him as one of the top five outstanding speakers in the world. Through his over two decades of work since leaving his medical practice, Deepak continues to revolutionize common wisdom about the crucial connection between body, mind, spirit, and healing. His mission of "bridging the technological miracles of the west with the wisdom of the east" remains his thrust and provides the basis for his recognition as one of India's historically greatest ambassadors to the west. Chopra has been a keynote speaker at several academic institutions including Harvard Medical School, Harvard Business School, Harvard Divinity School, Kellogg School of Management, Stanford Business School and Wharton.His latest book is "Reinventing the Body, Resurrecting the Soul."Subscribe
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I wish I was a mouse so I could ride in your pocket!!!
I've always wondered about the Big Bang theory, which is the accepted theory of how the universe began. If all began from a single dense point, from where did that point originate? How can something arise out of nothing? /Spontaneous generation? No one seems to have the answer. In that regard, it actually makes sense that consciousness, or God, created that single point. Perhaps Occum's Razor. Love to hear what top physicists think about it.
As far as the sages go, I have no doubt that those who devote much of their lives to deep meditation and mind training are capable of amazing things: great physiological control and perhaps clairvoyance and powers of healing. Years ago on a television broadcast Tibetan yogis sat out in the snow in loincloths–and eventually melted the snow around them by projecting their body heat. One hears the same about Taoist adepts. Masters of internal energy.
Can't wait for the videos.
Bob it would be interesting to ask a Zen Master about beginnings – according to Mahayana there was no beginning.. so I assume the point was always there – not very enlightening is it ! But then beginnings and endings are all in the space time reference of the brain rather than this very enigmatic ' IS ness ' that, like my ' ' missing socks ' investigation have gone *beyond* time and space.
The only thing I can liken it to ( and I could be SO wrong ) is that this point is like a mandala – the thought or theory / equation for all possible events and combinations ( TOE – which was inside the missing sock no doubt ) and which is being worked out by trial and error in space time – although there is no error – just relative inharmonious states that form relationships with some of the other states ! ( cosmic arguments and divorce problems haha )
I posit that at that bindu / thigle or point we will find the most perfect math theorem:
God's name is MATH , or if you are Kabbalist, it's gematria would be 440 / 41 and A frequency and we are all tuned to it !
Sorry about the woowey mystic stuff but it is quite strange
and I just couldn't resist referring to it !
this is for kids and blondes ( or greys like me ) http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/en/kids/phonedrmarc/20…
about the big bang and NO center of the universe.
This actually says that there was no one point but happened everywhere..
"Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer.
Things fall apart;
the center cannot hold."
Generally, blondes do have more fun. But not lately. Obviously, Yeats was not a blonde.
So I am going to posit that in accordance with Buddhism the origin of the physical universe existed in potential or as a state beyond mass and detectability at our present level of either awareness or technology and which, for reasons yet unknown, evolved and became the manifest universe. This may or may not have been following the logical potential state / desire to become sentient ( of itself ) through reflected mirror images in Buddhist teachings – what would it be the equivalent in quantum physics ?
* Some people may interpret this potential state as being the original or primal thought ( of ' god' ) the first awakening or first awareness – a primal ATI Buddha
Yeats must have been ' quite something' Merlin would laugh !
referring to my past post I might also consider the beggining is also the end > a return to the primal state of thought and beyond all energy and mass > Zero point ?
dunno… only tick tocking away in a very old decrepit brain
Huge laughter .. IF it happened everywhere all at once ……whoaaaaaaa…. is this some mass enlightenment thing approaching the human mind or old… Gabriel blowing his A tuned trumpet in my ear on resurrection day !
er.. now about that question I asked you Bob on FB hehe ! ???????
Giggles and other strange audio sounds from the pit of my gut — is all that bling on his glasses not so subliminally informing me that he has a diamond mind..
Kay,
I think posting those statements would engender the end of our universe on intent.com. Why not go out in a blaze of glory? Apocalyse Now.
cluck cluck cluck – u first
I'm surprised I haven't been thrown off this site just for some of the shots I've taken at various personages.
no knows or will ever know how it all began…aren't humans too nosy about the unknowable…the big myatery? damn!
Mr. Jones…how's ur pot?
oops… .
no one knows…
big mystery!
This is the most exciting event ever! Joanne… may I be a fly on the mouse in the pocket??
Bob, where is a new car before it appears with a bang in your garage? Where is spring in January? Where in the acorn is the oak ? And where do they go when they are no more?
BREAKING SYMMETRY
– James Ph. Kotsybar
Our universe has things in it because
Chance quantum fluctuations enable.
Nothing is what violates Nature
Aurora,
Gotta love those incomprehensible New Age metaphors. Just say things straight out, without that metaphysical squint. In past discussions with Dr. Shermer, Deepak Chopra did the exact same thing when pressed–and Shermer made mincemeat out of him. I pressed one poser on this site about consciousness and his "proof" was that he never remembered not being. Few do until they're born. There may be karma, or heaven, but let's examine it scientifically which is what this debate is all about.
Dear Bob, I'm not a scientist, so I can't examine life that way. I am so grateful that other people can! That is what is so exciting with this event…
But there are many ways to examine life. Conventional science is not the only viable one.
My questions were not metaphors, friend. I wonder how you would answer them.
Dear Deepak,
I would love it, if you would read my following sonnet at the symposium.
– Jim
STRINGS ATTACHED
– James Ph. Kotsybar
Physicists foresee a utopia
(once they squint through micro-myopia)
where all of the forces of nature should
become unified and be understood.
Even in science, letting go is hard,
and notions are the hardest to divorce,
but, to reach there, they
Or, choose all or any of these. I believe they will amuse.
STICK THEORY
If God wanted us to know everything
the universe would have stopped expanding,
or, at least, its speed should be lessening,
allowing us to gain understanding.
If we are limited to speed of light,
while God stretches the fabric far faster,
then as long as we
Aurora,
What is the sound of one hand clapping? It's a koan. It has no answer.
James, your poems are fun indeed, thank you!
Bob, it does have an answer. It's just that the answer is more subtle than we are used to. And also, to be a real answer, it has to be experienced somehow.
For a scientist, the question could be: what is the vibration of a hand? A hand does not need another hand to sound, it sounds all by and in itself. But the sound is not of the kind we are used to, like in clapping. It is more subtle, and can even be measured by machines today. It's just that we don't need machines to hear that sound, if we refine our perception.
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it…….smiles to you Joanne-
Someone once asked Mrs Eddy(known to be a Sage and a Scientist with a capitol S…) in the later part of the 1800's -After the change called death takes place, do we meet those gone before?—or does life continue in thought only as in a dream?
Her answer—-
Man is not annihilated, nor does he loose his identity, by passing through the belief called death. After the momentary belief of dying passes from mortal mind, this mind is still in a conscious state of existance; and the individual has passed through a moment of extreme mortal fear, to awaken with thoughts, and being as material as before. Science with a capitol S., clearly states that spiritualization of thought is not attained by the death of the body, but by a "Conscious Union with God" (what is God?, all that is Consciously Good and ever existing)-When we shall have passed the ordeal called death, or destroyed the last enemy, namely death, and shall come upon the same plane of existance with those gone before, then we shall be able to communicate with and to recognize them..
If before the change whereby we meet the dear departed, our life work proves to have been well done, we shall not have to repeat it; but our joys and means of advancing will be proportionately increased. (this is a very important point, which can be proven scientific
The difference between a belief of material existance and the Spiritual Fact of Life, is that the former is a dream and unreal, while the latter is real and eternal. Only as we understand God(infinite Good) and learn tha good, not so called evil, lives and is immortal, that immortality only exist in spiritual perfection, shall we drop our false sense of Life in a sense of sin or sense material, and recognize a better state of existance….
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;(Mary Baker Eddy–Prose Works pg 42 MW)
The above is my testimony also….In 1996 my heart stopped beating, only I did not die…..I realized that I am a Conscious spiritual being, that does not die …
It truly is a matter of "Self Realization" —the only real cure to all doubt and skepticism, but I will say this, there is a Scientific way, with a capitol S., that leads into the all Truth of who we really are,,,revisit the second paragraph of Mrs Eddy's answer……Life is Ageless—and every individual will learn this….Peace-
Love,
Gyanama
Hi All,
Aurora and James (love the poems), I'm the poser Bob is referring to and take it as a complement. I've been to the Chopra Center and have met Deepak at a couple of his lectures. I've told him I find his (and others who understand Oneness) image to be an archetype that I identify with. I'm not his protege like Deepak was with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, but I've been transformed by his work and my emulation comes from a shared understanding of existence. Humbly and with the grace of God, I have found a solid place of peace within I can't describe, but intellectually I have much to learn.
I found out about the symposium about a month ago, but already committed to go skiing in Colorado. I look forward to the videos and hope to make the event next year.
The latest theory says there are infinite universes and when the membranes of these universes collide a universe like ours forms. Again this is just a theory. What is known is that it appears like the universe started from a singularity from our observations here and now in this part of the universe.
Here is the thread that incited Bob to call me names. I love Bob and I'm happy he is on this site. He is me.
I've had the inevitable problems and suffering that come with life, but overall I've had a lot of love and have been blessed in so many ways. I wonder if the capacity for love is tied to the capacity for strong observation? Enjoy.
http://www.intent.com/deepakchopra/blog/how-we-ma…
Love,
Michael
Hi Michael, it's nice to meet you
How fascinating – this latest theory you describe.
What is even more fascinating is what happens when we relate it to the research that says that the observer influences the observation. That would mean that every theory with enough energy behind it would create its own objective proofs and reality.
This is a fun universe
Thank you, Aurora.
Hi ,Michael. You write: "I wonder if the capacity for love is tied to the capacity for strong observation?"
Here's a possible answer:
VISIONARY
– James Ph. Kotsybar
He looked into the lens-system and saw
an unimaginably small world grow.
Now does this image in history draw
from van Leeuwenhoek or Galileo?
Through lenses both passed to another realm
of being, since their broadened reference frame
allowed them visions that could overwhelm.
Then for everyone nothing stayed the same.
The vaster one
the universe is home.
Home to one sock flapping, Diab
I've commented and posted about the paranormal experiences I've had: Strange electrical occurences in my body after years of standing post meditation, which leads me to believe the body does have an energetic system not detectable at this time by CATSCANS or MRIs. Chinese and Indian texts going back more than centuries have discussed this. Seeing, or experiencing, is believing.
I also have had experiences with apparently angry entities or energies that seemed to have sentience and purpose. I certainly believe in the paranormal, not only from my own experiences–but from the experiences of many who have nothing to gain but ridicule by discussing them.
But, can one derive an theory of the universe from these experiences? No, these things must be investigated further and evidence must be accumulated.
One problem I have with some people on this site is that they seem to descend into jargon and platitudes when asked for evidence. It becomes a debate of semantics; similar to a Philosopy 101 class. One never gets to the philosophy; all one's time is spent deciphering the metaphysical language and examples. A further line of retreat is the advice to "look deeper." Implying that if one words hard, he or she will someday reach their level of spiritual awareness. I doubt anyone who is spiritually advanced need proclaim it. It becomes evident from their words and actions.
We are all seekers on this site; no one has "arrived." If we had, we wouldn't be debating. Our egos would have no need of it.
that's bery funny, granpa! one sock flappin'?………………..in the wind….source of wind?…………………..
You are right Bob, we are all seekers in a wonderful adventure called life.
Like Socrates we only do know one thing for sure and that is that we don't know a thing.
But in dialogueing with one another some very valuable points arise of which we can say: hey this is worth looking into a bit deeper or that is interesting to me.
Plato pondered about this world of ideas, where every idea already exists. This also can be translated as the field of endless possibilities. When Plato is right, it is up to us to explore everything that is in our possibility. And it could be that the observer, the one who is observing it right now, influences the idea to adapt it to his/her present reality. I believe this is a very challenging view.
You influence those ideas in your universe, I in mine and together we might do this in the Grand Scheme of Things.
Great discussion!
I will give it a try to reply to your questions Aurora
The only reply according to me is: all those things are a budding reality, already lying there as a kind of seed that will grow if we nourish it.
We can understand a lot if we look at the seasons in Nature
And like Nature we too are able to let the old die and the new arise. In fact we do that every day.
And if we truly are aware of the fact that every day is a new day, we would not cling so much to the past but have an open look at what lies just in front of us. And being aware of synchronicities we did not see before
Made such a nice labyrinth today. Love your new look!
Gonna change mine tomorrow
Mieke,
In many ways we are on the same page–even though coming from different viewpoints. From your comments, you stand out as being someone who is absolutely genuine. You never retreat into semantics or "hocus-pocus;" you just say it. Love it!
Please have a glass of wine for me! It is the weekend!
Love on ya!
Bob
Cheers, to your good health
I always listen to the heartphone lol
Mr. Corny is weird!
mieke vanderpoll is wandaful!
“We are all seekers on this site; no one has “arrived.” If we had, we wouldn’t be debating. Our egos would have no need of it”
Where do you think we should be arriving? There are many individuals Bob, who’s seeking has brought them to a recognition of Eternal Conscious being……..Try not to make your seeking, to difficult to figure out….
And the only true power is love, all other so called powers, levitation or any of the siddhis are an obstruction to just simply Being and actualizing what’s in your heart of hearts—
Peace,
Gyanama
A reminder for scientists:
Instead of commenting on the fact that 85 percent of scientists are atheists (a vastly different number from the average person, implying that education leads to atheism), then patting themselves on the back for their brightness in combating this so-called
Indigestion, Diab, indigestion and living in igloos
Good morning Bob,
What you call "paranormal" experiences are fully normal experiences, of the kind we all have when our perception starts to be more refined (deepen). I have not read any previous posts or comments of yours about this, but I practice and teach energy healing, so I know what you mean.
The angry entities or energies you describe are the individual and collective "clouds" of emotional energy created by us, human beings. You perceive these – congratulations! That is only possible with subtle vision.
Something that might help you in dealing with them is knowing that they are our own creation, they do not exist "out there" but are intimately connected with the consciousness of the perceiver. That means that learning how to purify our individual system (mind-body) of anger, frustration and any other distorted energy results in a clearing of not only the individual, but also the collective space. In other words – we are the ones who create these energies, and we are the ones to un-create (heal) them.
Can one derive a theory of the universe from these experiences?
I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in theories. I want knowledge and truth of the kind that comes with experience and solid evidence. Of course it is important to study the theories and banks of knowledge from present and past, but one has to let one's own consciousness show the way.
And contrary to what we might believe, looking deeper into things does not require hard work, but – doing nothing. Stillness of mind and body is necessary to reveal deeper truths about how everything is created and what everything is made of. These revelations are not simply theories /fantasies, but much deeper, undeniable truths.
But to arrive there we need to face and clear away the "angry entities" first, the ones that resist stillness and make the waters of our consciousness too turbulent to notice what is real. As long as we are looking at the world from such an energy, the world will seem to be full of problems and enemies.
Wishing you a continued great weekend!
Hello SKEP,
you ask "So what do you think, why is it that 85 percent of scientists can live without a supernatural God? Or why 15% still need him?"
First… God is not supernatural. It is the very essence of nature. With all my love, and from a desire for your well being, I would like to assure you that what Deepak and these sages are talking about is not at all the God you refer to.
Second, dear friend… expanded truths are never brought into collective consciousness by the majority. There is always a minority of visionaries who see further, and who bring new insights despite the resistence of the old views.
My hope for this event is that at least some of those who do not yet understand – truly listen. Who knows, someone might suddenly hear.
@ Ed.. so the new creationist theory according St Ardwork is that the great burp of the universe was due to bicarb and hydrochloric acid ?
One is reminded from some of these comments of the early Puritans who came to this country. Who declared that according to biblical proof only the "saints" would enter the kingdom of heaven. Their next declaration? "We are the saints." Visionaries.
Another new concept, the uncertainty principle, concluded that analyzing particles at these scales would require a statistical approach. In more recent times, wave-particle duality has been shown to apply not only to photons, but to increasingly massive particles.[3]
- Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subatomic_particle
OK so here we are all sitting in a state of uncertainty about anything – especially our own selves…
Deepak and Buddhism's metaphor ( cosmic ) waves in an ocean ( of waves ) seems more relevant than ever
Now about that ' metaphor ' thing …..
Tara ( Buddhist deity ) who carries you across to the other shore :
metaphor
1530s, from M.Fr. metaphore, from L. metaphora, from Gk. metaphora "a transfer," especially of the sense of one word to a different word, lit. "a carrying over," from metapherein "transfer, carry over," from meta- "over, across" (see meta-) + pherein "to carry, bear" (see infer). Related: Metaphoric; metaphorical; metaphorically.
* Tara is a star *
For those unfamiliar with Tara see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_(Buddhism)
Tara being orginally from the Hindu :
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?script=HK&tinp…
* POLE star – the pole of the ferryman
>
?? tara adj. carrying beyond
so Tara has my missing socks
Hi Bob,
I don't know if "some of the comments" refers to my comment, but keeping it vague is a way to avoid communicating directly. So, for the sake of clarity, are you talking to me?
Aurora,
I disagree with your interpretation of angry entities being projections of our own psyche. When I left the first “haunted house” I lived in some years back, I handed the landlady the keys and she asked “Did you know the place is haunted?” I laughed and said “You’re telling me now?” Apparently the previous owner had killed a young woman with his car on the highway. Then the hauntings started. He sold her the house for a song and left the state. I experienced tiny fists beating on the bottom of my bed, the box spring, as though something wanted me awake. Also freezing cold spots in July and things being moved and disappearing. Apparently the previous owner also had similar experiences. One would question whether we both were exercising our personal demons, or there was some energy outside ourselves “manifesting.”
The next apartment I lived in was an artist’s colony converted from an old factory. I would be repeatedly slapped awake if I fell asleep in a certain room, and have the most horrific dreams of eviscerated people standing behind me. Once an explosion with the force of both barrels of a shotgun a few feet away from me lifted me from my chair and almost blew up my heart. Later I checked with other residents, and the building’s administrator; many had psychic experiences–figures strolling through their apartments, things disappearing, cold spots and others. I was far from the only one.
I doubt all were exercising their anger at the same time and in the same place.
The electrical experiences in my body? Indeed the result of hard work, years of training and discipline. When I told my teacher, he said “Good. You’re making progress. Nothing special; forget about it and keep working.” Kept me humble. Others in the Buddhist tradition spend years meditating and disciplining their minds. It is hard work indeed. One doesn’t just say “I will achieve stillness and cosmic awareness by thinking so.” One has to put in the work. And meditation is somedays seamless; and somedays is work. Any meditator with a long-time practice will say the same.
Aurora,
Regarding the “we are the saints” comment, I indeed kept it vague. I wanted to see whose ego would respond.
Bob,
you seem to presume that any discussion happens because of ego. We can talk with each other from ego or from spirit. It is up to each of us to discover the difference and do something about it, or not. So why not let the work on our own egos be the work of each of us, and continue to discuss, looking for points of view that might be valuable to our growth?
Regarding the energy entities: I didn't say that all energy entities are a manifestation of your personal psyche. Individual and collective consciousness are creating these clouds, meaning that we can indeed walk into a room or house and observe/perceive what is there. In no way have you personally created the energy cloud you experienced in that "haunted house". But you were capable to perceive it because you too recognize that type of vibration. That means that you too are able to create it, and probably have been angry or frustrated sometimes in your life. And so if we want to clean up the collective space of that kind of energy, we must of course do the work of clearing it out in ourselves first.
Hard work? Of course you can see it as hard work, if you mean determination, focus, getting up and continuing your spiritual practice when you own discouragement wants to take over. The mind contains three qualities- tamas, rajas and sattva, which are all needed at different points of the journey. But to reach spirit you have to continuously increase the amount of sattva in the mind. And sattva is evolution, silence, and clarity.
That is because I am a reflection of you.
You like to run, I like to walk